"Voter ID which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."___Republican Mike Turzani, PA House Minority Leader.

Nate, I think your article is little bit confusing. The forms of id you suggest can be used to get a photo id from Pendot, some would not be valid at the polling places on election day.
See link:
http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/preparing_for_election_day/13517/voter_id_law/1115447

I believe that some of the information posted is incorrect. If you do not have the acceptable form of Photo ID: (Valid driver’s license, ID card distributed by any other state or federal agency, U.S. passport, Student identification with expiration date or employee identification card, or Armed forces ID, you may vote by provisional ballot and are then required to appear before a judge of the County Board of Elections.

I have not read anywhere that the second list of identification that you have providedwould be considered valid voter ID. In order to obtain a PennDot issued voter ID an official birth certificate, social security card and two proofs of residency must be submitted. I believe that the second list of identification that you supply would qualify as valid proof of residency when applying for a Penndot ID, but would not be acceptable as voter ID at the voting booth.

Whats wrong with that? You need ID for driving,banking, alcohol, cigarr,clubbing and so on. If you don't have ID you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Not registered , not voting. No ID.. Not voting. If you cant do two simple things....should you really be electing officials?

My problem with these laws is two fold:
1. It can deprive people of the right to vote if they cannot obtain the necessary ID either because they cannot afford it or they cannot physically obtain it.
2. It wastes tax payers money to implement a law against what, in realty, is not a real issue in PA-voter fraud.
Many politicians claim they are for small government and less spending but then they vote for and pass a bill that is truly intrusive, overreaching and expensive.

Do people need to show any kind of ID to get welfare, medicaid, social services? If not, they should! So use the same ID to vote. If you can't verify someone's identity, how do you stop fraud of all kinds?

IMPORTANT: Student ID's (Must Have Expiration Date that is Current) otherwise students will be turned away if this is their only form of ID for the State of PA.

WARNING!!!! ..... Most colleges do NOT have an expiration date on their student ID's.

IMPORTANT: Employee Photo ID - Issued by Federal, PA, County, or Municipal Government....(MUST have expiration date that is Current).

IMPORTANT: U.S. Military ID - Active duty and Retired military (a military or veteran's ID...(MUST contain an expiration date that is Current, OR designate that the expiration date is indefinite).....Military Dependents' ID... (MUST contain an expiration date that is Current).

PA driver's license or non-driver's license photo ID...( ID's are valid for Voting Purposes ONLY 12 months PAST Expiration date).

Photo ID Cards issued by a PA care facility, including long-term care facilities assisted living residences or personal care homes. (MUST contain an expiration date that is Current).

The dirt is in the detail of this legislation, which makes it extremely obvious that the GOP Voter ID Law is one that is intended to create to produce unprecedented Election Day problems.

Seriously, how many people are looking for anything outside of the tick list of ID's that are approved. Only the information for Military provides an additional detail on current expirations.

Here is a question I'd like to have answered. Think about the number of care facilities with people who have dementia. If the home has power of attorney is there any protection under the law to prevent those with that power of attorney from filling out absentee ballots, personally filling them out and submitting them? Just asking.

dave u sound like the 18 yo kid who thinkls the drinking age should be 18. get over it this is a law that should have been enacted 100 years ago. Anyone who is not a citizen of this country should not be able to vote for the law makers of our great country. r u so caught up in your political party that youll try to justify your position just to win? as a independent voter i find it sad that anyone would try to reason y one would not need a id to do the mosy important thing in our country other than fight for it

I think that it is very important that Nate Adams corrects the misleading information he has given regarding the PA voter ID law. If a person shows up at the polls with a gun license or utility bill as ID, s/he will not be able to vote, and that should be communicated clearly.

Requiring ID does make sense. Not providing adequate education or providing misleading information about a new law or establishing requirements that disenfranchise already registered voters does not make for a fair election process in my opinion.

Why is it mostly the Democrats that are so upset with the law? does anyone remember the Democratic black panther party supressing votes in Philadelphia? Not a peep from The Attorney General about that. You people want it one way ...your way ,then criticize anyone that doesn't see your point of view. And you say the teaparty is nuts. Bye bye o BLAME o.

I have to say Dan, you are a great conversationalist.

Earnest...you have the right to report that activity to the State Polce, the Chester County Board of Elections, the Judge of Election at the poll or the Pa Attny General office and you should have reported to all of them. No one should feel intimidated at the polls.

My point is nothing in my previous posts are wrong. Everything was reported in the news and you need ID for the things I mentioned. Why do you get upset with a differing opinion?

The voters who sued to challenge the PA Photo ID Law -- all citizens (one a veteran) who are registered to vote and have been voting for years -- do not have have and, more importantly, cannot obtain one of the approved forms of photo ID. Therefore, they are disenfranchised by the law. You can read more about it here: http://freeandequalpa.wordpress.com/summary-of-applewhite-petition/

Disenfranchising voters to solve a non-existent problem makes no sense. The fact is, there is no evidence that voter impersonation fraud -- the only type of fraud a requirement that voters show ID can prevent -- is actually occurring. If voter impersonation was widespread or even happening occasionally, you would expect to see evidence that voters showed up at polls only to learn that someone already had voted for them. You also would expect to hear evidence that, every once in a while, an impersonator is caught because the poll workers or poll watchers know the voter that the impersonator is attempting to impersonate or the impersonator is unable to convincingly forge the real voter's signature. But I have not seen any such evidence.

Also, it would be extremely easy to perform an empirical study to determine if voter impersonation fraud was occurring: (1) check the poll books to see whether people who died before any given election signed in to vote; (2) contact a statistically significant number of voters who signed in to vote at any election and ask whether they in fact voted; and (3) check to see whether anyone who fraudulently registered to vote actually signed in to vote. The Legislature should have undertaken this study to determine that voter impersonation fraud actually is occurring before spending millions of dollars of our taxpayer money to solve what appears to be a non-existent problem.

What would stop any of these"disenfranchised voters from filing an absentee ballot? Then they wouldn't have to leave the house. Don't even have to walk to a mailbox since the GOP must have gotten rid of them during the Bush Administration. They could just leave it in the mailbox for the Government employee to pick it up.

This is frivolous spending of 11 Million dollars by the Corbett and the Republican Legislators (hard earned money by ALL tax payers) to create a bogus law based on their fabrication of make believe voter impersonators/frauds, of which there are NONE.

Corbett and his administration have engaged enacting legislation that take away our Freedoms, Personal Rights, and Liberties. Big Daddy State that will dictate who is worthy and what we are permitted to do or not do.

Sounds just like what Obama is doing to the whole country. Ironic don't ya think? When congress doesn't pass something he just enacts anyway. Is that what you want for the next four years? Check out the last two budgets presented to congress and tell me how many Dems voted for it? 10 years out and not one cost cutting measure. The answer by the way is 0. How can he claim that the GOP is blocking his agenda?

With all due respect-this is in no way similar to any agenda, in both substance and the ability to pass, that the Obama administration has pursued.

Last comment should be under earnest. You sound exactly like what the GOP is crowing about with this President. Frivolous spending, bogus laws, fabrication of jobs, taking away personal rights. freedoms and liberty. See we are much more alike then you think.

I just read the Applewhite petition and the summaries describing the petitioners. In some cases I believe the complainants are certainly going to be inconvenienced, but in others, I am confused. How can one join the Armed Forces or obtain employment in a school district without some form of official ID? Do you not need a birth certificate to get a Social Security card? As for the "indigent", before one can vote, one must be a registered voter with an address to legally vote in an assigned precinct. I am more than a little annoyed that the Commonwealth felt that there was a pressing need to legislate identification procedures. I am a member of the Board of Elections in my precinct and such legislation insults those of us who were duly elected to these positions. I feel sympathy for the truly disenfranchised, but they are few and far between. I can't go to a doctor without picture ID. How can anyone function in today's world without ID?

Regarding Daniel's comments about absentee ballots- there are stipulations as to who can file an absentee ballot; you can not just choose to "vote from home."

Even though voters might disagree about the issues and the candidates, we should all care that every voter is guaranteed an equal opportunity to vote. Daniel asks why it is generally Democrats protesting the new voter ID law but it fairly plain to see that the constituencies most affected by this law generally vote democratic.

I have spoken with elderly folks who are disabled and no longer have an official birth certificate or a copy of their social security card (often due to burglary). And yes, there are volunteers working to help these people get the necessary documentation in order to obtain the ID-- but if you have voted your entire life of 75-80 years, wouldn't it seem that a hurdle has suddenly been placed before your right to vote?

Many inner city 18-year-olds do not drive (they can't afford a car or insurance) and they seldom have utility bills in their own name. Often they have to bring an adult they live with as well as a school transcript or college acceptance form to the Penn Dott facility in order to prove residency.

Require ID but assure that the stipulations do not prevent 9% of Pennsylvanians and an estimated 18% of Philadelphians from casting their vote.

Kathleen I would agree with you that this law would hinder voting in primarily Philadelphia. It may not be right but its the law. (Sounds just like obamacare huh)? I'll bet more than 3x the 18% in phily who can't get ID don't vote at all.

No, the statistics resulted from comparing the list of registered voters with those holding a PA drivers license or a PennDot issued ID. In Philadelphia, 18% of registered voters do not have the required ID.

The problem with the law is that it does harm in some cases and good in other cases. When the law prevents a fraudulent vote it is good. When it prevents a bona fide vote it is bad. Based upon the statistical reports I have read and heard it seems to me that the actual amount of voter fraud is minuscule when compared to the millions of voters on the rolls. It is tenth of a percent. The PA law could disenfranchise thousands of voters who are not fraudulent voters. There in lies the basis of my decision to oppose the law. I believe that when an action has both a good and a bad effect, it should be evaluated on the basis of what does the greater harm. In the case of the PA Law the greater harm is disenfranchising thousands of voters to prevent a minuscule number of fraudulent votes. The harm outweighs the good. I think the Legislature and Governor have failed to make a case for the need for the Law. How many cased of voter fraud have been proven over the past decade in PA in all elections? I don't know, but I suspect it is a number that, if known, would make the public upset about the Law.

A "solution in search of a non-existent problem. There is no evidence of a voting fraud problem. Legislators should be embarrassed for using the law for such partisan purposes to "tilt" an election unfairly.

Given that there is voter apathy in too many elections....I do not understand the need for this legislation. I cannot remember the last incident of voter fraud being an issue in any election. The issue of voting is so sacred to me as a woman. Suffragettes took a stand and many died before they saw women had the right to vote. I cannot bear for anything that would limit the right to vote. I encourage all people to vote and the local voting authorities at the polls know how to do their jobs. We don't more government to limit voting. I favor a smaller government foot print on my life .....I am taking a consistent stand on this issue!

Come on, nobody is being disenfranchised. Inconvenienced? Maybe. But nobody is being deprived the right to vote - they just now have to prove they are who they say they are, which is a requirement for several things considerably less significant than voting for our country's leaders.

From the votespa.com website: "If you do not have one of these IDs and require one for voting purposes, you may be entitled to get one FREE OF CHARGE at a PennDOT Driver License Center. To find the Driver License Center nearest you, and learn what identification and residency documentation you will need to get a photo ID visit PennDOT's Voter ID website or call the Department of State's Voter ID Hotline at 1-877-VotesPA (1-877-868-3772)."

The statistic I want to know is the percentage of regular voters that don't have photo ID, Those who really want to vote have plenty of time to get an ID. Those coomplaining are probably those that don't vote anyway. Stop complaining and go get the ID now and don't wait until November.

This law affects only long-time, legally registered voters. First time voters already had to supply ID, so there is no change for them.

So, if we already had in place an adequate ID law to prevent someone from falsely registering and then showing up days later to vote, why did we need this new law? My answer is that it was mainly to impede voting by likely Democratic groups, mainly the young and minorities, who are least likely to have the required forms of ID.

This will also have the extra benefit, for Republicans, of slowing and lengthening lines at polls dominated by these groups.

We saw this in 2008, when -- largely thanks to the need to check first time IDs -- lines were incredibly long at college polling places. And, anything which makes lines longer also tends to suppress voting.

Remember Lincoln University in 2008? Over a thousand minority students stood in the rain four hours and hours, the last of them only getting to vote three hours after the regular poll closing and even after the election had been called.

That is what this new voter ID law promises to bring to thousands of polls in Pennsylvania: voter intimidation and suppression, for purely partisan motives.

Meanwhile, the only case of voter fraud I can recall in this county was by a Republican elected official who registered, ran and voted in a township where he didn't live. This law, of course would not have stopped that, because I believe Barry DiLibero had a drivers license.

Pennsylvanians are being told to spend more than $10 million of public money to solve a problem that does not exist (only four voters proven fraudulent among 10 million casting votes in 2008-2010.) The only explanation for this law is to suppress votes by "urban", poor and elderly people who do not vote for the party of the wealthy.

Ramona, Just because the law doesn't impact you personally does not mean that it is justified. You don't seem to care about the FACTUAL numbers and the FACTUAL issues that are problematic in being able to obtain the new strict Republican Mandated voter identification. Do you think that 90 year old woman who does not have a birth certificate, marched with Martin Luther King, to get her Civil Rights and the ability to vote as an American, should suddenly not be allowed to vote? How about those who have heroically served in the United States Military for your freedoms that you enjoy?

I encourage you to rise above the simplistic (if it doesn't impact me) thinking and to better educate yourself on how the issue impacts the rights, freedoms, and liberty of Americans.

Why isn't a photo ID required for absentee ballots? For an absentee ballot, all you have to do is submit a SS number, either by mail or phone.

Could this be because most absentee voters are registered Republicans?

This alone makes this law inequitable, favoring one group over another.

It would be more instructive if Patch reported the number of people actually eligible to vote who lack appropriate ID. The reported roughly nine percent of registered voters lacking ID is a WORTHLESS number. Some of the people on the rolls (especially the inactive ones) are dead or have moved out away from the address at which they are registered.

I agree with the Voter ID bill. I have to present a photo ID at the doctor's office, the hospital, the bank, to board a plane or to enter an office building. What's the big deal?

It's republican strategy to limit democrat votes. People without photo ID are the elderly and poor.

Im a dem. I think the timing is bad. The law or rule would be more fair if they had enacted it after this election which would give people more time to get their proper ID cards in place for 2016. Its too close to this years election. Its really bad timing and yes I think it has potential to cause Mitt to win PA.

Tony:
First, I note that you did not answer my question.

Second. Your challenge to find fraud was only too simple to fulfill. From a google search:

"... a fraudster in Tunica County, Miss. — a member of the NAACP’s local executive committee — who was sentenced in April to five years in prison for voting in the names of ten voters, including four who were deceased.

"...the former deputy chief of staff for Washington mayor Vincent Gray, who was forced to resign after news broke that she had voted illegally in the District of Columbia even though she was a Maryland resident."

"... a federal immigration court in Florida on a Cuban immigrant who came to the U.S. in April 2004 and promptly registered and voted in the November election."

Former liberal Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens agrees. Stevens wrote in a 6-3 majority opinion upholding an Indiana voter ID law: “That flagrant examples of [voter] fraud…have been documented throughout this Nation’s history by respected historians and journalists…demonstrate[s] that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election.”

Given the incidence of voter fraud — and the simplicity of requiring voters to present a valid ID in order to be able to vote — it’s not surprising that 70% of likely voters believe that voters should be required to show photo id before being allowed to cast their ballot, according to a recent Rasmussen poll.

Ah Frank, are these the examples you are using? Is that the best you can do? You make everyone's point who thinks this is a gross waste of governmental resources.
Next time find an example of voter impersonation fraud (preferably in PA). Every abuse you listed could have happened with or without the new voter suppression law.

Let's take away people's rights-- and make some money in the process!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/pennsylvania_voter_id_chris_bravacos_bravo_group_romney_ad.php?m=1

The more we learn about this Republican party mandate it is increasingly revealed as an undermining of the Constitutional Rights of Americans and an attack on Americans Civil Rights.

Looking into some of the required paper work that Americans are having to produce for proof of citizenship, we learn that there are financial costs form at least $50.00 to $100.00 to obtain necessary documents.

Corbett and our Republican's don't talk about these financial costs, because having to pay money to prove one's legal right to vote is factually called a Poll Tax.

The info in the article is not accurate. Voters can not present other forms of ID. That was only for the primary. You need an ID that has an expiration date, issued by PA. PA employee ID doesn't have an expiration date. On all the acceptable IDs, a current address is not necessary allowing someone registered in more than 1 place to vote in more than 1 place. Businesses that have dead peasants insurance get information from social security admin on deaths so they can collect on the policies. Why can't voter registration depts get the same info so these dead people will not be on the rolls? this would prevent fraud. Training the poll workers better so they know what to do when someone comes in to vote that is not in the "book" would prevent prevent fraud. When someone registers to vote that is the time their citizenship should be questioned. This bill does not address any of this. Rep Turzai said why this bill was passed - to let Romney win PA.

Anyone who refuses to get an ID or show and ID to vote, get booze, get a library card, buy cigarettes, drivers license is usually some low life, illegal, commie or lazy bum who doesn't want to be a good citizen. Regardless if they are an American citizen or not they should be exported or jailed for messing up the system.

I am all for it. I can't understand why people are so upset about this. It protects all parties! The Dems are afraid of this because they think they will lose the state of PA?? Maybe they will lose with or without an ID. Talk about grasping at straws! What it will do is cut down on bogus write-in votes, or votes by deceased people...BOTH parties! You need ID for everything else, so what is the real issue here? Yup, you guessed it...they want Obama to win, but isn't it better to win an election on your own merits?

Obviously you have no concept of the world outside your limited perspective. Do you realize , oh I'm not even going to bother

The Commonwealth admitted in writing that there is no evidence of in-person voter impersonation fraud, which is the only type of fraud that possibly could be prevented by the photo ID law (http://pilcop.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Exhibit-3-Applewhite-Stipulation-copy.pdf). So why are are legislators wasting millions of our tax dollars on the law?

DSR, who commented: "Anyone who refuses to get an ID or show an ID to vote.." seems a little confused-- the issue is not that people refuse to get the Valid Photo ID stipulated by the law or that they will refuse to show it, the issue is that the documentation required to obtain the ID is just not easily available to a percentage of otherwise legally registered voters. And as far as I know, there is no law that says that one citizen can judge whether or not another citizen is "good enough" to vote.

Magic666's comment: "You need ID for everything else, so what is the real issue here? Yup, you guessed it...they want Obama to win, but isn't it better to win an election on your own merits?" makes no sense really. My BJ's card and my library card are ID, but not even my voter registration card will be adequate at the polls as a result of this new law. AN ELECTION IS FAIR ONLY IF ALL REGISTERED VOTERS ARE ABLE TO CAST THEIR BALLOT. "Merit" doesn't have anything to do with it. The legislators who crafted this law and voted it in place have lost all sense of "merit" in my opinion; they have not only wasted my tax dollars but have attempted to disenfranchise poor and elderly voters.

The amount of misinformation on this issue is incredible.

No, the elderly do not need a photo ID to collect Social Security. At some point they had to present a Social Security number and a birth certificate, but after that they can simply have their checks direct deposited.

And, no, it is often not easy at all to get to a DMV for a photo ID by public transportation. I've checked and a round trip to my nearest DMV office would require 4 bus rides, two walks and up to four hours. Plus, on most days, I would have to get there before 4:15.

And, no, the poor on assistance do not need the sort of photo ID this law requires.

So, now that you know your facts are wrong, are you willing to reevaluate your opinion?

Jim. you still had to have an ID to open that bank account. Once you get ID and jse kt l ce or twice, you dont just throw it away. Please, spare me your drama about how many buses you would have to take. Surely you and everyone else has a friend, relative, or neighbor who could spare an hour to take you ONCE to get you to a PENNDOT place for ID. I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I've had to present photo ID every time I've voted for the past 11 years (when I moved to my current location). It was no big deal, and I sure as hell. ever griped about it or even questioned it. Laws are enacted all the time. Adjust to them!

*Once you get ID and use it once or twice...."

Jim and Earnest, I appreciate your attempts at educating advocates of the photo ID law like magic. But no amount of logic, data or tangible examples will ever convince someone who obviously has not spent the time to understand the ramifications of this legislation. The Republicans are betting on the ignorance of their supporters to defend this measure. When was the last time any elected pol (Kampf,. Gerlach, etc) has come out and defended this law. The whole affair really proves to me just how fragile democracy truly is.

Would Rep Kampf or a representative from his office kindly like to defend these voter suppression laws? I would also like to know how well administering this legislation is holding up to budget estimates to date. I see PA is scrambling to create a new photo ID because of the difficulties with people attaining some of the required documentation. Was this a part of the original legislation, and how much is this going to cost above original projections?
As our Rep. you have an obligation to justify your vote on this election.
BTW Rep Kampf is having Town Hall meeting in Phoenixville at the end of the month. Perhaps that would be good time to get some answers and justifications.

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Legislative Update 

Friday, July 20, 2012

 The latest news from the State Capitol

You’re Invited to My Town Hall Meeting

It’s important that we keep the lines of communication open. That’s why I’m inviting you to a Town Hall meeting. It will take place on Monday, July 30, 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m., at the Phoenixville Area High School Auditorium, 1200 Gay St. in Phoenixville.

It would be great if all concerned could make this meeting. DC

For anyone interested, I have posted links to and some analysis of the pretrial briefs filed this past Wednesday in advance of next week's hearing on the request to enjoin the Photo ID Law here:
http://freeandequalpa.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/the-parties-pretrial-briefs/

Pa admits there is no in person voter fraud .
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/pennsylvania_voter_id_no_in_person_voter_fraud.php?ref=fpa

Fraud?? Government?? They go together like peanut butter & jelly! Can you think of an area of Government that hasn't been subject to fraud? If so, name it. Medicare spends $70 BILLION PER YEAR in fraudulent payments....and that's according to the Federal Government and the Obama administration. If it has anything to do with the Government then an ID should be absolutely necessary....

Everyone needs to watch this. Just shows how easy it is to vote as other folks.

 
 
From: camera in MINNESOTA voting office- Voter Fraud is Legal
 
 
 
           THIS IS INTERESTING ---- WE CHECK ON VOTER FRAUD IN OTHER COUNTRIES,  
                                                   BUT IN THE U.S.A.VOTER FRAUD IS LEGAL AND  FACILITATED !
                                                    JUST LIKE OUR ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS....                   
 
         THIS IS WORST THAN A CORRUPT, THIRD-WORLD COUNTRY......  

 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 This is why the Just-Us Department, under Eric Holder, will do everything to stop voter ID.
If you are unaware, Eric Holder is attempting to stop Florida from purging a few hundred thousand illegal, dead, and felons from the voter rolls.  They are dead - they can't vote!! They are not citizens -they can't vote!! They need to be purged from the voting rolls - but NO!!Florida is using information supplied by the Department of Homeland Security (aka, America’s KGB) to ascertain who should or should not be on the rolls yet Holder is attempting to stop them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=GqMVxeZhflI&feature=player_embedded 

Information in this article is incorrect as to what you can use for ID in November. Please reply to this post if you have any questions. I am a majority inspector in LM

We really need to bring civics back to school curriculum.